Syntax: it relates the structure of a sentence to its meaning
Brian presented his trope del dia about anadiplosis. He was kind of lost and definetly got grilled. But the class helped reach numerous conclusions about anadiplosis: It allows for development and movement. It creates a connection. Its like a bridge or a chain. It’s the transitive property (compliments to Tristan Biles).
MAIN PURPOSE: to give people hope.
For some reason Big E said “row to hoe.” i and im sure many others thought he said “rode a ho.” i’m still not sure why he said it but it seemed to have an effect on the class’s focus so i thought i’d mention it.
Melanie presented her trope: epanalepsis. its purpose is to cap/contain the sentence. It is like the refelxive property in math. apparently, math is its own language.
Diagrams on the board:
a->b
b->c
c->d
…a.a…b.b…c.c…
Sean=BUSTED! he got kicked out of class but apparently is so eager to learn that he felt inclined to sit at the door rubbing his chin at our discussion. then he disappeared when he was allowed to come back inside.
then we took the TSL quiz.
for those who received 42 or lower on their essays, the worksheet is due.
mm.. yeah..
Period 5
The story which you are about to hear…
is a horrifying account based on the precise events that befell a group of youths on the afternoon of November 3, 2008…
The following is based on the documentation of the actual events and experiences that the students of Mr. Elridge’s fifth period class claim to have taken place.
They could not have expected, nor would they have wished to see…
as much of the mad and macabre as they experienced that day.
For them, an idyllic autumn afternoon soon became a nightmare.
12:36 PM
Henry Kim makes a comment that anyone who says people who call others bigots for opposing gay marriage are in fact, bigots themselves. Infuriated, Zachglasser opined that this statement is ridiculous because the people who are tolerant of homosexuals cannot possibly have committed acts of bigotry. Equally enraged, Jay Lee took Henry’s side and argued that it is necessary to vote yes on Proposition 8 to restore order in California marriages by banning marriage for all gays.
12:40 PM
This is when a “Zachglasser Freakout” occurred in which all hell broke loose. The three all argued, incredibly loudly might I add, as the rest of the class either watched or joined in the fight. Henry Kim noticed the situation getting out of hand so he somewhat stopped debating as Jay and Zachglasser battled it out to the death. Finally, after many harsh words were said, both Zach and Jay were kicked out of the class. Both continued to argue for about a minute before they eventually went outside.
**This extreme debate probably carried on from the earlier debate today between Mr. Loftus vs Matt Rennick and Mr. Malinowski during third period.
12:43
Peace and quiet.
Anyway, on a more positive note, that was by far the highlight of my day. As the day progressed, it became obvious that this was Zachglasser’s day to shine. He gave his Trope of the Day on Epanalepsis which is the repetition of the same word of phrase after other words have intervened. In one of his quotes , Zachglasser imitated Yoda’s voice which was strangely dead-on. Then, Mr. Eldreezy distinguished epanalepsis vs anadiplosis which left Keren Mahgerefteh utterly confused. After that, we had our Scarlet Letter Quiz on chapters 13-15.
This concludes perhaps the most fascinating day yet in fifth period’s history. I think everyone is secretly hoping that Zach, Jay, and Henry argue about politics again. (Taxes, abortion, gun control-just some ideas )
Homework for tonight:
-Cause and Effect on Kleins’ story.
-Essay worksheet revision on the Mississippi River if you received a score of 42 or lower on your essay.
Nikki, I thought we established–at length–that a trope cannot engender hope. As Jordan pointed out, something depressing can be repeated…. not so hopeful.
Can anyone post what we finally determined one of the key purposes for anadiplosis is?
“Henry Kim makes a comment that anyone who says people who call others bigots for opposing gay marriage are in fact, bigots themselves” (lines 11-12).
I DID NOT say that ! =0
I said that people who call other people “bigots,” are themselves discriminating against others (Mr. Eldridge agreed & confirmed this before class started), which is kinda ironic since the whole “NO on Prop 8″ scheme bases some of its campaign on the fallacious “No Discrimination” policy.
And to that, I say “haha.”
Oh yes Kirsten, the wondrous advantages of debate superiority..
but more important is the skill of avoiding trouble when people disagree with you. X)
henry youre missing the point. if you take the literal definition of discriminating, which is just differentiating between two sides/opinions/groups, then sure people who support gay marriage are discriminating, just like anybody who is partial in any issue towards one side or group. and im sure thats all elridge was referring to when he “agreed” with you. but when pro-gay marriage people say “no discrimination” they specifically mean the kind of discrimination where a specific group is targeted negatively on the basis of intolerance. i guess to clear the confusion, “no intolerance” would be better than “no discrimination” but whatever it’s the same thing. the bottom line is anti-gay marriage people are intolerant bigots trying to force their own views on others who may not share their views, and are denying equal protection under the law for gay people.
and btw, ill debate anyone, anytime, on any issue. i dont care if i get kicked out again either, someones gotta take a stand (plus its fun and entertaining for all of us)
Oh, how sophistical of your reasoning Zach…
No on Prop 8 would actually have the opposite effect of intolerance on say, those who are religious of this nation, which GROSSLY outnumbers the number of gays/lesbians in our country.
1. Churches may have their tax exempt status challenged or revoked if they publicly oppose same-sex marriage or refuse to allow same-sex marriage ceremonies in their religious buildings open to the public.
It’s something they believe in and it is the churches’ choice; you can’t take that right away from them.
2. Ministers who preach against same-sex marriages may be sued for hate speech and risk government fines. It has already happened in Canada and Sweden, countries that have legalized same-sex marriage.
Where did their 1st amendment rights just go? Their rights will be taken away from them.
3. Religions that sponsor private schools with married student housing may be required to provide housing for same-sex couples, even if counter to church doctrine, or risk lawsuits over tax exemptions and related benefits.
I see some signs of intolerance right there..
4. Adoption agencies will be forced to place children with same-sex couples, regardless of an agency’s beliefs.
Forced? Hmm, that doesn’t sound like intolerance at all.
Don’t call me a bigot man..
especially on your faulty logic and reasoning.
Everything you base your facts upon is probably out of what other people say, rather than from scrutiny of the real evidence.
This is a good informational site by the way:
whatisprop8.org
PS: I sound mean. Haha, but I gotta say what I have to say.
PPS: I HATE arguing online because it’s so dumb and annoying and repetitive. -_-
PPPS: Wow, everyone’s gonna hate me for this post. keke
hey guys….i dont think im coming in today…. i have an eye infection in both eyes
dont even really know how im typing this
lol
but yeah henry
you are right about all those statements you made about Prop 8
True, it does demean the rights of the church in a way to protect those of gay citizens
And although i admire your opinion
You must consider the “intolerance” of the situation, as zach said
I mean, Prop 8 was invented intentionally just to take away rights of gay citizens
For someone to purposely make a proposal that hampers the rights of a certain group of people is wrong
Whether you believe in gay marriage or traditional, everyone has unailiable rights: life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness
Hands down, thats the issue here
and if someone cannot pursue their happiness because it goes against the beliefs of others that doesnt mean you can force it on them
I mean yesterday, Im standing outside and jets are flying overhead writing messages in the sky stating “VOTE YES ON PROP 8″
How sad is that
You cant even walk down the street and be a homosexual without surrounding dissaproval
one of my best friends is a homosexual and is too afraid to tell anyone, especiallly now that this whole controversy is afoot
I mean gay marriage was just passed, how can you take it away when it’s barely come into effect?
well, i just wanted to add that, ill see everyone tomorrow!
OBAMA/BAIDEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!=)
Actually, same-sex marriage was not “passed.” It was considered legal under the California Constitution. That is why proposition 8 is a Constitutional amendment. I think that is why there is such a passionate fight on both sides–it’s not just a law that can be passed repealed, or struck down by a court.
One question brought up by this debate is “Should the government be in the marriage business at all? Especially as it seems to muddy the church/state separation.”
I’m not putting any opinion towards the debate on Yes/No on Proposition 8, but in response to the post about the planes writing “Yes on Prop 8″ in the sky yesterday, I think that the reason for that is where we live. Orange County is Republican and for the majority (from the signs displayed around), “Yes” on Proposition 8. However, in Long Beach, where there is a larger homosexual community, there were planes writing “No on Proposition 8″ all over the sky. Also, in West Hollywood, where a great majority of the public is homosexual, those who vote Yes on Prop 8 usually keep to themselves about this opinion to not discriminate against homosexuals.
What I’m saying is that is that not everybody is trying to discriminate against homosexuals, I think it is just a matter of the opinions closely surrounding us and the places where we live. Many people that vote “Yes” might not be discriminating against homosexuals, maybe they’re just very religious and want to keep the strict traditions of the church. Republicans tend to be conservative, and since Orange County is mostly Republican, this is probably the cause of the “Yes on 8″. Even though in the area we live in,”Yes” is in the sky, in a city ten minutes over, they are spreading totally different messages. So, its not that people discriminate directly against homosexuals, it’s just people in different places showing their opinions on the matter.
Henry, the problem with your reasoning is that you refuse to acknowledge separation of church and state as Mr. Eldridge stated.
All your key points of argument deal with personal beliefs rather than equality or justice provided under the law. If you make political choices solely on your religious beliefs, then you are not only contradicting the purpose of a democratic society with separataion of church and state but you are being biased against those who do not follow your beliefs.
I’m not trying to diminish the importance of the Bible, but if you continued to follow everything word for word then Christians would still sacrifice animals as an offering to God and own slaves, because it is written of in the Bible. The exact same reasoning you used was used in the South before the Civil War, as Southerners tried justifying slavery’s morality by using the Bible.
As to your comment about preachers being sued for “hate speech,” you’re spot on- because that’s what making derogatory comments to homosexuals is. Preaching against the particular group of people-here it is homosexuals- is no different than persecuting Blacks, Jews, Muslims, Chinese, etc. because of their ethnicity or religion. To publicly condemn an entire group of people solely because they are homosexual is unacceptable, and there is no reason the church should be condoning this kind of behavior.
Furthermore, your assumption that same-sex couples are somehow worse candidates for adoption than other married couples is unfounded, given the high rate of divorce in the U.S. You speak of people being “forced” to provide housing or adoptive children, which under the law their sexuality should not even be considered.
All your points deal with discrimination-and that’s what banning gay marriage is. I don’t understand why accuse Zach of regurgitating information when you clearly copied most of the key points on whatisprop8.org. If we continue to view homosexuals as inferior or undeserving of equal rights, then we are no different than racism against Blacks in the 1960s or laws against interracial marriages . If we want to move forward and become a model for other nations, then we should put an end to this discrimination which is no different than racism.
If the U.S. is going to continue to interfere with the personal lives of its citizens, then equality and justice is the only way for it to govern people.
All I have to say is that I agree with Zach. No on Prop 8. Though I’m not going to go out on a limb, and call everyone who disagrees with me a bigot, however, I have to acknowledge that most of the boys who are “YES” on prop 8 are mostly homophobes. There isn’t anything wrong with that, but, don’t sit there and make other peoples’ lives miserable just because you’re afraid of a little PDA between two guys or even two girls. Not only was this country founded on the idea of freedom/liberty, but it was also founded on the idea of equality-meaning that every person, whether they be homosexual, straight, or bisexual, WHATEVER are, should have the RIGHT to marry the person they love. Furthermore, Thomas Jefferson also once wrote about “the pursuit of happiness”, which ultimately includes marriage as Chief Justice Warren once wrote:
“The freedom to marry has long been recognized as one of the vital personal rights essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free men.”
And if love is part of the pursuit of happiness, then say No on prop 8, because ultimately, everyone wants to be happy. Yes, the idea of gay marriage may not be appealing to those who are homophobic, or believe in the preserving the original traditional form of marriage between man and woman; however, there are some people out there who are not very open-minded to the idea of interracial marriages, yet we still allow it. And I ask you, why isn’t that being called into question? Do interracial marriages NOT fall under the same category as gay marriages? They, too, are not traditional, and it just frustrates me how nobody is calling that into question, but they feel the need to pinpoint the gay community. All in all, if marriage makes people happy, and happy people equals a happier country, then let them get married. We never said that YOU had to marry them too.
Go Zach Glasser.
And no, Henry, you’re definitely NOT superior.
whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa.
first of all, not everyone who supports Prop 8 is a homophobe.
second of all, you can’t assume that everyone supporting Prop 8 is grossed out by “a little” PDA.
“We” are not supporting it because of that. Heck no we’re not. Get your facts straight.
PS. Kirsten, it’s BIDEN, not BAIDEN. =)
…and after tomorrow, I’m done with this stupid election/fighting. However people vote, it’ll be the ways things go. No arguing about that.
well i just think that everyone has the right to maake their own decisions in life, including who they marry…
no law or proposition should determine how people live their personal lives.
i think that the whole sepersation between church and state is up in the air right now. since marriage is a sacred ceremony of the church i dont think that the government has a right to interfere with it Mr eldridge. if religion is such a cotroversial issue than marriage should be a fragile subject and approached with care and precaution, not propositions and regulations.
and thats my opinion
and like i said earlier henry, i appreciate your enthusiasm but even if you claIM not to be homophobic thats the vibe your sending out to everyone. throwing around “bigot” at people.
Dont you think everyone deserves to be happy? no matter what that means? how would you feel if you werent allowed happiness?
PS i know i spelled biden wrong, but thanx anyways i guess
PSS thanx for clearing things up olivia, but i now think that its even more wrong. i mean despite majority there are still gay people in the community. thats what i was saying. you kinda helped me make the point i was trying to make. if orange county is a republic the few gays living here a surrounded by contrasting opinion and subjected watchful and judging eyes.
Hmm.. I posted a well thought out response earlier, but it says Mr. E needs to moderate it. and it pretty much contradicted everything Henry said. Oh well.
holy crap this is so intense
but go henry ! looool
and i dont think that this is a matter of people being grossed out about pda and i also dont think its making their lives miserable.
just because the proposition 8 is passed as “yes” doesn’t mean that it stops people from being gay.
marriage is supposed to be between man and woman..or that may be more of a religious aspect. or traditional or whatever you want to call it.
also, “you” can’t really say that we’re being intolerant of gay people because we’re not. this doesn’t really have to do with intolerance and the people who are “yes on 8″ aren’t intolerant people. the reason why people vote “yes on 8: isn’t because they are against gay people!
if you guys want to see intense,
go look at my facebook page.
i posted my status as “no on prop 8″
and i got over 100 comments on it,
half of them were attacking me for it.
it’s a little ridiculous,
i think i’m entitled to my opinion, thank you.
if you look at the full story in the mini-feed, it had to cut off like 6 of the comments because it can only display 100.
I am YES on Prop 8. Now before anyone gets all crazy and starts protesting me here are my reasons for supporting this proposition. First off, my religious teachings preech traditional marriage between a man and a woman. Gay marriage, no matter at what extent, is not tolerated in my religion (Greek Orthodox). Now that does not mean my religion is anti gay people. It only means that it is anti gay marriage. For instance, my sunday school teacher recently informed me that he is very good friends with a gay couple that is not yet married. He enjoyed going out to dinner with them and going to the movies with them, but when he was invited to their wedding he did not attend. This does not mean he doesn’t love the two people as much anymore, he just doesnt support thier decision.
Next I’d like to add on about the public school dilemma. It is true that marriage is never acutally “taught” in school. The teacher doesn’t sit down and say, “Children, marriage is between a man and a woman. End of lesson”. But the concept of marriage is brought up everyday. I remember in fourth grade when my teacher talked about getting married every single day. She was a woman marrying a man. Now take this into consideration: imagine a young child, around fourth grade age, sitting there listening to their girl teacher saying she is going to marry another girl or the guy teacher saying he is going to marry another guy. Although gay marriage was never taught, it was displayed making it seem “ok” to the young children. In my opinion, this is extremely hazardous to the health of our future generations.
I’d also like to add in that even if prop 8 passes, domestic partnership will still be allowed. Two men and two women can live together and do whatever they want together even after the outcome of prop 8.
Lastly, I’d like to bring in immigration. Now, you’re probably thinking how in the world is immigration integrated into gay marriage, but they do have a connection. Our nation is already struggling with illegal immigrants and and over abundant population, and if “no on prop 8″ passes it will only add to the crisis. Now a man can bring in his buddy to the U.S. by saying they are married when they are really only friends, therefore increasing the ammount of people in the U.S.
That is my position on prop 8. I don’t mean to offend anyone. They are just my beliefs.
I think that calling people that support yes on 8 “homophobes” is a little bigoted in itself. Just because a guy supports prop 8 does not mean he is a homophobe. You are taking a large group of people and making gross generalizations.
Prop 8 in my opinion is a question of belief. If I believe homosexuality is wrong, that does not mean I will persecute homosexuals on the basis of the sexual nature. Rather, I believe that marriages are defined between man and woman and changing the definition will directly affect me, messing with my basic fundamental beliefs and values.
Furthermore, churches will be sued for denying marriages to gay couples, wasting time and money in court. Although most churches believe homosexuality to be wrong, they will pretty much be coerced into allowing gay marriages because if gay marriages are legalized, you cannot deny a marriage based on sexual orientation because it is a civil rights issue (hate crimes are considered felonies).
Lastly, proposition 8 is not a matter about rights. Under the California Domestic Partners and Rights Responsibilities Act (2003 signed by Gray Davis) virtually all rights enumerated to married heterosexual couples are given to domestic partners. Furthermore, Proposition 8 is not outlawing homosexuality or the pursuit of the homosexual lifestyle.
Well, that said it is the people who vote on this.
Henry, I disagree with your views but I have to say, it is obvious that you are in speech and debate. I don’t think you personally are a bigot but I think that many of the people who vote yes on Prop 8 are. I think Kirsten described the situation best.
If I have learned anything from history, it’s that both women and blacks were at one time not allowed to vote. Presently, this seems ridiculous. I think in x amount of years, people are going to look back and wonder why gay marriage was ever an issue. It’s going to take time but the faster gay marriage becomes legal, the faster it will become “normal” in soceity.
and btw…how has nobody said anything about the yoda impression?!
I don’t understand why people consider gay marriage so “dangerous.”
Simply ignoring gay people is more dangerous, because it is perpetuating intolerance through exclusion. The only way our society can make progress is if we become more tolerant. Sex and violence are considered taboo, yet we have TV shows, movies, and videogames solely devoted to them. How are children expected to become responsible adults if the truth is hidden from them?
This is a key point in several of the stories we have recently read. “Omission” is so hazardous because it portrays a false view of reality rather than displaying what is actually truthful.
And as for religious beliefs, there is a fine line between spirituality and equality. In a democratic society we are each given the responsibility to make decisions based on equality and justice. If you make your decisions solely on religious beliefs then you are abusing the rights you have been given and are being unfair to those who do not share your religious beliefs. As for all of you who believe there are different parts to Prop. 8, you are completely wrong-it is solely about gay marriage and has nothing to do with taking away church’s rights.
Looking at Prop.8 from a logical and just viewpoint, there is no reason to justify its passing.
yeah i think everyone is entitled to their opinion and no i dont think anyone is a bigot for supporting prop 8
i mean if we are gonna talk about gay marriage affecting traditional and fundamental views of marriage thats just ridiculous
think about it. even not all traditional marriages are the same. they vary with religion. jewish, christian, buddhist, they all have varying traditional marriage ceremonies. so to say that gay marriage affects traditional marriage is a harsh and rash overstatement to make. for all we know gay marriages could be performed completely different than traditional maRRiages. and i still dont see how what other people do effects us directly. Its not our decision to make, how other people live their lives. That’s their decision and their’s only
and not all bashers of prop 8 are gay and some are even believers of traditional marriage
i mean im baptist and my god teaches that marriage is to be shared only between a man and a woman. and i have faith in that. but just because that is how i choose to live my life doesnt mean others have to as well. im not going to force my beliefs on other people. its not my life. i cant live other peoples lives for them. i figure they can do whatever they want becas=use when it comes down to it its between them and god. theyll be the ones having todeal with that in their own religion. so thats all i have to say
Kolkin I have to call you out. Just because you think something is logical and just does not necessarily mean other people do as well. (its all a matter of perspective)
Gay people are not ignored in society and they are portrayed on TV, and they have the right to push their agenda. I am not questioning that right, nor am I questioning the right of opponents of Prop. 8 to vote no.
Furthermore, religion is a lifestyle that defines people’s perspectives on equality and justice. It is completely fair to vote based on religion because to the religious, it is their First Amendment protected right to have freedom of religion and thus vote and act accordingly. As for Prop. 8 not having to do with anything besides gay marriage… well it has implications that affect society, fundamental beliefs (which are protected by the Bill of Rights), and churches, government agencies, etc…
i just wanted to say because its been brought up 3 or 4 times…this really wont affect churches as much as some have made it seem. a gay couple isn’t stupid. they know that going to a catholic church or going to a Greek orthodox church or any other church known to be anti-gay-marriage, the church wont be happy and may not treat them with respect. so a couple wouldn’t go there. my church (los altos United Church of Christ) is against gay marriage as a whole conngregation (i disagree). and if we are approached by a gay couple asking us to marry them, we say “you may not be comfortable at our church at this time, can we recommend first congregational church in long beach about 20 minutes from here? they will be more able to handle your needs as a couple at this time.” ( i called my pastor terry and this is what she says exactly off a note card)and we’ve never had a problem. a couple never wants their wedding to be awkward or uncomfortable in any way. so if warned of any awkwardness or problems, they are more than happy to go to a different church to be married without anymore drama than could be expected(cake, flowers, dresses, tuxes etc.) just my opinion. i believe every couple has the right to be married, but every church has the right to voice their beliefs. this compromise can hopefully help both sides.
one more point…does it really affect those against prop 8?? its a lot like if someone you know is marrying someone you don’t think is a good person or will end up as a good marriage. you can tell the person it is a bad idea, but that is the person’s own decision. the government has no right to control who a person married whether its “wrong” or not.
As for the church being allowed to express its beliefs, there have been many incidents where gays have sued churches for discrimination in denying marriage ceremonies.
I’m done arguing.
Kolkin, if you believe in gay marriages I believe in your right to believe in what you want.
Jay, you’re awesome.
Alex C, I respect your opinion. And you do bring up pretty good connections.
Alex K, you’re true about the “no one’s gonna budge thing,” because no one is going to..
Kirsten, you’re very funny. =)
and Obama/Biden DID win, so it is my responsibility to respect that…. unlike SOME cough*bigots*cough who just BAGGED on bush the moment he was elected because they didn’t know how to respect the guy, whether they liked him or not.
PS. sigh* I can’t wait til this whole thing is over..
One of the main arguments in preventing gay marriage, or at least banning it in the state of California deals with the fact that gay marriage goes against peoples religions. That’s the main reason I’ve heard from people for prop 8, so many people are bringing religion into this decision when I don’t think it should be. Seperation of Church and Sate. I mean, really, that’s what makes America different from other countries (or at least one reason) we have freedom of expression, marriage is a form of expression, an expression of love and commitment. Denying this rights is not the answer.
The marriage of two people of the same sex doesn’t affect our daily lives now. We’ve lived with if for the last few years and it hasn’t affected us. Why change that now. It’s discrimination.
yeah kim…this whole *bigot* thing is getting kind of out of hand…jay i respect you the most because there is alot of knowledge in your opinion even thouygh i dont agree withyou
i agree to disagree with you =)
I have to say, i am very impressed with how devoted each side is to their cause. However, it is very extremely, and awfully repulsive to see how segregated this topic is making our country. I can’t believe how much condemnation and critisism is occuring back and forth between both sides. Honestly, I don’t understand why people think that if someone, who is entitled to their own beliefs and thoughts, believes something contrary to their own ideals, they are automatically discriminating and are intolerants. Both sides of the prop 8 argument have received negative attentions…but that is why America is a free country-why we have agency-the ability to choose for ourselves, freedom of speech, of religion, beliefs, life. I think that is one of America’s greatest flaws, the crack in the cornerstone, people don’t respect another person’s beliefs and ideals.
I myself, support yes on 8, but that doesn’t mean i discriminate- i have many gay friends, just because i don’t necessarily support their actions doesn’t mean i am intolerant of them, or hate them for that matter. Yes, all men are created equal, we are all endowed unaileniable rights.
Through research of both sides and arguments, it is obvious that “no on 8″ stressed the fact that discrimination is wrong…why is it ok then to come out with commercials that discriminate against Mormons and LDS Missionaries, accusing them of actions we would never dream of doing?
I’m not sure about you, but double standards don’t stew well with me.
I agree with everybody, especially Kim (Barnhill).
Name-calling and accusing others will most likely not solve any problems. (negative campaigning, which obviously did not bolster McCain’s support)
Anyways, the Prop 8 precincts are almost fully counted (as of now 86%) which means I might be able to go to sleep soon.
But anyways, the voting of Prop 8 has been a very close race ever since they started counting. There wasn’t a voting gap of more than 6%.
The current vote goes as:
52% for : 48% against.
a VERY close race.
yeah, i know that people are entitled to their own beliefs and all
and i do understand both sides
and i also think that people shouldn’t criticize other people or whatnot because they are yes or no on prop 8.
i would expand on everything else that i have to say, but it’s already done and i’m tired of arguing.
in defense of tera-lynne
hahaha…
why the canadians??
even today, when i…..exposed those smelly things.
-.-
what does being a canadian have to do with not being able to smell it
LOL
Ok i know this is gonna be a little late reponse (i guess i shouldve checked the blog yesterday, was a little distracted by the election) but im just gonna say a couple things and then im over it.
First of all, we have all neglected to mention a very important thing: we are going to have an african american president. I don’t care how you feel about Obama; whether you supported him or not, no one can deny what a great moment this is for our country. Less than 50 years ago african americans couldn’t even sit in the same seat on the bus or go to the same schools as white people in this country, and now a black man is our leader. Amazing and historic, and we should all be happy at least for that. Plus of course the type of political movement that Obama has led, bringing millions of young people into American politics and restoring hope in the possibility of government in the eyes of many.
As far as prop 8 goes, I think its silly at this point to continue arguing. henry your arguments are contradictory and hypocritical, but i think kokin and kirsten and many others already pointed out everything there is i can possibly say. All i will add is this: while yes, unfortunately prop 8 passed, it only won by about 3 points. About 10 years ago a similar measure was on the ballot and it won by about 20 points. So although we may not have gone as far as many of us wanted, we are heading in the right direction. The civl rights movement was not won in one election, it took about 15 years for black people to be fully integrated as equal citizens. So believe me, this fight is not over. I think it will ultimately be decided in the Supreme Court, the question is simply when.
On a lighter note, has anyone noticed that henry and I are the president and vice president of speech and debate, respectively? I dont think thats a coincidence, and for everyone frustrated by the constant debating, all i can say is sorry, we cant help ourselves. Its what we do.
hahahah, oh goodness, again with Canada. Tera-Lynn, in no way was my comment today supposed to offend you or Canada. Actually, I hear Canada is lovely and very interesting to visit. Mr. E just said that the white girls of Bread & Butter cannot handle the smell of dumplings, but Tera-Lynn can, so I was like “Oh! Because she’s from Canada.”
Excuse me Zachglasser, but I believe you failed to mention that I am also a leader of Speech and Debate. And I can assure you that Publicity Manager is just as important as vice president or president.
Though my title lacks more of the ring that yours possesses.
But great point overall, we continue to make progress gradually.
staying out of all arguments over prop 8, i would just like to say that this was probably one of the funniest days in mr. eldridge’s class we have seen this year; i don’t know, maybe i am going out on a limb here but i found it quite hilarious.
i still dont get what that has to do with being able to smell the deliciousness of it.
AHHAHA (;
i think…my group would rather put emphasis on the taste.
I couldn’t smell the korean dumplings, colleen, but I’m sure they smelled delicious. I’m probably just accustomed to the smell! or maybe because I go to canada a lot!
hm maybe I’m not even going to mention anything about the props. but its frustrating to listen to people talk about it during class.
)
Nikki, I thought we established–at length–that a trope cannot engender hope. As Jordan pointed out, something depressing can be repeated…. not so hopeful.
Can anyone post what we finally determined one of the key purposes for anadiplosis is?
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i thought we concluded that the purpose of anadiplosis was to use repitition in order to put emphasis on a key word or phrase
like in “I am Sam, Sam i am”
we can conclude that Sam is indeed sam
anadiplosis is just supposed to stress your point right ? Whether your tone is depressed or hopeful?
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It seems mr. eldridge was in a kicking out kind of mood today – on the warpath.
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thats what happens when you side with henry
YOU GET THE BOOT!!!!
its funny henry didnt get kicked out though, funny
(thought i might throw some epanalepsis in there!)
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“Henry Kim makes a comment that anyone who says people who call others bigots for opposing gay marriage are in fact, bigots themselves” (lines 11-12).
I DID NOT say that ! =0
I said that people who call other people “bigots,” are themselves discriminating against others (Mr. Eldridge agreed & confirmed this before class started), which is kinda ironic since the whole “NO on Prop 8″ scheme bases some of its campaign on the fallacious “No Discrimination” policy.
And to that, I say “haha.”
Oh yes Kirsten, the wondrous advantages of debate superiority..
but more important is the skill of avoiding trouble when people disagree with you. X)
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henry youre missing the point. if you take the literal definition of discriminating, which is just differentiating between two sides/opinions/groups, then sure people who support gay marriage are discriminating, just like anybody who is partial in any issue towards one side or group. and im sure thats all elridge was referring to when he “agreed” with you. but when pro-gay marriage people say “no discrimination” they specifically mean the kind of discrimination where a specific group is targeted negatively on the basis of intolerance. i guess to clear the confusion, “no intolerance” would be better than “no discrimination” but whatever it’s the same thing. the bottom line is anti-gay marriage people are intolerant bigots trying to force their own views on others who may not share their views, and are denying equal protection under the law for gay people.
and btw, ill debate anyone, anytime, on any issue. i dont care if i get kicked out again either, someones gotta take a stand (plus its fun and entertaining for all of us)
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i’m anti-gay marriage but it doesn’t mean i’m against gay people…
which i’m not.
plus, this…issue moreover has to do with my religion
so uhyeah.
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Oh, how sophistical of your reasoning Zach…
No on Prop 8 would actually have the opposite effect of intolerance on say, those who are religious of this nation, which GROSSLY outnumbers the number of gays/lesbians in our country.
1. Churches may have their tax exempt status challenged or revoked if they publicly oppose same-sex marriage or refuse to allow same-sex marriage ceremonies in their religious buildings open to the public.
It’s something they believe in and it is the churches’ choice; you can’t take that right away from them.
2. Ministers who preach against same-sex marriages may be sued for hate speech and risk government fines. It has already happened in Canada and Sweden, countries that have legalized same-sex marriage.
Where did their 1st amendment rights just go? Their rights will be taken away from them.
3. Religions that sponsor private schools with married student housing may be required to provide housing for same-sex couples, even if counter to church doctrine, or risk lawsuits over tax exemptions and related benefits.
I see some signs of intolerance right there..
4. Adoption agencies will be forced to place children with same-sex couples, regardless of an agency’s beliefs.
Forced? Hmm, that doesn’t sound like intolerance at all.
Don’t call me a bigot man..
especially on your faulty logic and reasoning.
Everything you base your facts upon is probably out of what other people say, rather than from scrutiny of the real evidence.
This is a good informational site by the way:
whatisprop8.org
PS: I sound mean. Haha, but I gotta say what I have to say.
PPS: I HATE arguing online because it’s so dumb and annoying and repetitive. -_-
PPPS: Wow, everyone’s gonna hate me for this post. keke
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hey guys….i dont think im coming in today…. i have an eye infection in both eyes
dont even really know how im typing this
lol
but yeah henry
you are right about all those statements you made about Prop 8
True, it does demean the rights of the church in a way to protect those of gay citizens
And although i admire your opinion
You must consider the “intolerance” of the situation, as zach said
I mean, Prop 8 was invented intentionally just to take away rights of gay citizens
For someone to purposely make a proposal that hampers the rights of a certain group of people is wrong
Whether you believe in gay marriage or traditional, everyone has unailiable rights: life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness
Hands down, thats the issue here
and if someone cannot pursue their happiness because it goes against the beliefs of others that doesnt mean you can force it on them
I mean yesterday, Im standing outside and jets are flying overhead writing messages in the sky stating “VOTE YES ON PROP 8″
How sad is that
You cant even walk down the street and be a homosexual without surrounding dissaproval
one of my best friends is a homosexual and is too afraid to tell anyone, especiallly now that this whole controversy is afoot
I mean gay marriage was just passed, how can you take it away when it’s barely come into effect?
well, i just wanted to add that, ill see everyone tomorrow!
OBAMA/BAIDEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!=)
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Actually, same-sex marriage was not “passed.” It was considered legal under the California Constitution. That is why proposition 8 is a Constitutional amendment. I think that is why there is such a passionate fight on both sides–it’s not just a law that can be passed repealed, or struck down by a court.
One question brought up by this debate is “Should the government be in the marriage business at all? Especially as it seems to muddy the church/state separation.”
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I’m not putting any opinion towards the debate on Yes/No on Proposition 8, but in response to the post about the planes writing “Yes on Prop 8″ in the sky yesterday, I think that the reason for that is where we live. Orange County is Republican and for the majority (from the signs displayed around), “Yes” on Proposition 8. However, in Long Beach, where there is a larger homosexual community, there were planes writing “No on Proposition 8″ all over the sky. Also, in West Hollywood, where a great majority of the public is homosexual, those who vote Yes on Prop 8 usually keep to themselves about this opinion to not discriminate against homosexuals.
What I’m saying is that is that not everybody is trying to discriminate against homosexuals, I think it is just a matter of the opinions closely surrounding us and the places where we live. Many people that vote “Yes” might not be discriminating against homosexuals, maybe they’re just very religious and want to keep the strict traditions of the church. Republicans tend to be conservative, and since Orange County is mostly Republican, this is probably the cause of the “Yes on 8″. Even though in the area we live in,”Yes” is in the sky, in a city ten minutes over, they are spreading totally different messages. So, its not that people discriminate directly against homosexuals, it’s just people in different places showing their opinions on the matter.
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Henry, the problem with your reasoning is that you refuse to acknowledge separation of church and state as Mr. Eldridge stated.
All your key points of argument deal with personal beliefs rather than equality or justice provided under the law. If you make political choices solely on your religious beliefs, then you are not only contradicting the purpose of a democratic society with separataion of church and state but you are being biased against those who do not follow your beliefs.
I’m not trying to diminish the importance of the Bible, but if you continued to follow everything word for word then Christians would still sacrifice animals as an offering to God and own slaves, because it is written of in the Bible. The exact same reasoning you used was used in the South before the Civil War, as Southerners tried justifying slavery’s morality by using the Bible.
As to your comment about preachers being sued for “hate speech,” you’re spot on- because that’s what making derogatory comments to homosexuals is. Preaching against the particular group of people-here it is homosexuals- is no different than persecuting Blacks, Jews, Muslims, Chinese, etc. because of their ethnicity or religion. To publicly condemn an entire group of people solely because they are homosexual is unacceptable, and there is no reason the church should be condoning this kind of behavior.
Furthermore, your assumption that same-sex couples are somehow worse candidates for adoption than other married couples is unfounded, given the high rate of divorce in the U.S. You speak of people being “forced” to provide housing or adoptive children, which under the law their sexuality should not even be considered.
All your points deal with discrimination-and that’s what banning gay marriage is. I don’t understand why accuse Zach of regurgitating information when you clearly copied most of the key points on whatisprop8.org. If we continue to view homosexuals as inferior or undeserving of equal rights, then we are no different than racism against Blacks in the 1960s or laws against interracial marriages . If we want to move forward and become a model for other nations, then we should put an end to this discrimination which is no different than racism.
If the U.S. is going to continue to interfere with the personal lives of its citizens, then equality and justice is the only way for it to govern people.
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All I have to say is that I agree with Zach. No on Prop 8. Though I’m not going to go out on a limb, and call everyone who disagrees with me a bigot, however, I have to acknowledge that most of the boys who are “YES” on prop 8 are mostly homophobes. There isn’t anything wrong with that, but, don’t sit there and make other peoples’ lives miserable just because you’re afraid of a little PDA between two guys or even two girls. Not only was this country founded on the idea of freedom/liberty, but it was also founded on the idea of equality-meaning that every person, whether they be homosexual, straight, or bisexual, WHATEVER are, should have the RIGHT to marry the person they love. Furthermore, Thomas Jefferson also once wrote about “the pursuit of happiness”, which ultimately includes marriage as Chief Justice Warren once wrote:
“The freedom to marry has long been recognized as one of the vital personal rights essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free men.”
And if love is part of the pursuit of happiness, then say No on prop 8, because ultimately, everyone wants to be happy. Yes, the idea of gay marriage may not be appealing to those who are homophobic, or believe in the preserving the original traditional form of marriage between man and woman; however, there are some people out there who are not very open-minded to the idea of interracial marriages, yet we still allow it. And I ask you, why isn’t that being called into question? Do interracial marriages NOT fall under the same category as gay marriages? They, too, are not traditional, and it just frustrates me how nobody is calling that into question, but they feel the need to pinpoint the gay community. All in all, if marriage makes people happy, and happy people equals a happier country, then let them get married. We never said that YOU had to marry them too.
Go Zach Glasser.
And no, Henry, you’re definitely NOT superior.
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whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa.
first of all, not everyone who supports Prop 8 is a homophobe.
second of all, you can’t assume that everyone supporting Prop 8 is grossed out by “a little” PDA.
“We” are not supporting it because of that. Heck no we’re not. Get your facts straight.
PS. Kirsten, it’s BIDEN, not BAIDEN. =)
…and after tomorrow, I’m done with this stupid election/fighting. However people vote, it’ll be the ways things go. No arguing about that.
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well i just think that everyone has the right to maake their own decisions in life, including who they marry…
no law or proposition should determine how people live their personal lives.
i think that the whole sepersation between church and state is up in the air right now. since marriage is a sacred ceremony of the church i dont think that the government has a right to interfere with it Mr eldridge. if religion is such a cotroversial issue than marriage should be a fragile subject and approached with care and precaution, not propositions and regulations.
and thats my opinion
and like i said earlier henry, i appreciate your enthusiasm but even if you claIM not to be homophobic thats the vibe your sending out to everyone. throwing around “bigot” at people.
Dont you think everyone deserves to be happy? no matter what that means? how would you feel if you werent allowed happiness?
PS i know i spelled biden wrong, but thanx anyways i guess
PSS thanx for clearing things up olivia, but i now think that its even more wrong. i mean despite majority there are still gay people in the community. thats what i was saying. you kinda helped me make the point i was trying to make. if orange county is a republic the few gays living here a surrounded by contrasting opinion and subjected watchful and judging eyes.
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Hmm.. I posted a well thought out response earlier, but it says Mr. E needs to moderate it. and it pretty much contradicted everything Henry said. Oh well.
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holy crap this is so intense
but go henry ! looool
and i dont think that this is a matter of people being grossed out about pda and i also dont think its making their lives miserable.
just because the proposition 8 is passed as “yes” doesn’t mean that it stops people from being gay.
marriage is supposed to be between man and woman..or that may be more of a religious aspect. or traditional or whatever you want to call it.
also, “you” can’t really say that we’re being intolerant of gay people because we’re not. this doesn’t really have to do with intolerance and the people who are “yes on 8″ aren’t intolerant people. the reason why people vote “yes on 8: isn’t because they are against gay people!
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if you guys want to see intense,
go look at my facebook page.
i posted my status as “no on prop 8″
and i got over 100 comments on it,
half of them were attacking me for it.
it’s a little ridiculous,
i think i’m entitled to my opinion, thank you.
if you look at the full story in the mini-feed, it had to cut off like 6 of the comments because it can only display 100.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=795005337&v=feed&story_fbid=33919718534
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I am YES on Prop 8. Now before anyone gets all crazy and starts protesting me here are my reasons for supporting this proposition. First off, my religious teachings preech traditional marriage between a man and a woman. Gay marriage, no matter at what extent, is not tolerated in my religion (Greek Orthodox). Now that does not mean my religion is anti gay people. It only means that it is anti gay marriage. For instance, my sunday school teacher recently informed me that he is very good friends with a gay couple that is not yet married. He enjoyed going out to dinner with them and going to the movies with them, but when he was invited to their wedding he did not attend. This does not mean he doesn’t love the two people as much anymore, he just doesnt support thier decision.
Next I’d like to add on about the public school dilemma. It is true that marriage is never acutally “taught” in school. The teacher doesn’t sit down and say, “Children, marriage is between a man and a woman. End of lesson”. But the concept of marriage is brought up everyday. I remember in fourth grade when my teacher talked about getting married every single day. She was a woman marrying a man. Now take this into consideration: imagine a young child, around fourth grade age, sitting there listening to their girl teacher saying she is going to marry another girl or the guy teacher saying he is going to marry another guy. Although gay marriage was never taught, it was displayed making it seem “ok” to the young children. In my opinion, this is extremely hazardous to the health of our future generations.
I’d also like to add in that even if prop 8 passes, domestic partnership will still be allowed. Two men and two women can live together and do whatever they want together even after the outcome of prop 8.
Lastly, I’d like to bring in immigration. Now, you’re probably thinking how in the world is immigration integrated into gay marriage, but they do have a connection. Our nation is already struggling with illegal immigrants and and over abundant population, and if “no on prop 8″ passes it will only add to the crisis. Now a man can bring in his buddy to the U.S. by saying they are married when they are really only friends, therefore increasing the ammount of people in the U.S.
That is my position on prop 8. I don’t mean to offend anyone. They are just my beliefs.
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Oh, I’d just like to add like Kim said, everyone is entitled to their opinion and to profess their beliefs and they should not be ridiculed for it.
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I think that calling people that support yes on 8 “homophobes” is a little bigoted in itself. Just because a guy supports prop 8 does not mean he is a homophobe. You are taking a large group of people and making gross generalizations.
Prop 8 in my opinion is a question of belief. If I believe homosexuality is wrong, that does not mean I will persecute homosexuals on the basis of the sexual nature. Rather, I believe that marriages are defined between man and woman and changing the definition will directly affect me, messing with my basic fundamental beliefs and values.
Furthermore, churches will be sued for denying marriages to gay couples, wasting time and money in court. Although most churches believe homosexuality to be wrong, they will pretty much be coerced into allowing gay marriages because if gay marriages are legalized, you cannot deny a marriage based on sexual orientation because it is a civil rights issue (hate crimes are considered felonies).
Lastly, proposition 8 is not a matter about rights. Under the California Domestic Partners and Rights Responsibilities Act (2003 signed by Gray Davis) virtually all rights enumerated to married heterosexual couples are given to domestic partners. Furthermore, Proposition 8 is not outlawing homosexuality or the pursuit of the homosexual lifestyle.
Well, that said it is the people who vote on this.
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Henry, I disagree with your views but I have to say, it is obvious that you are in speech and debate. I don’t think you personally are a bigot but I think that many of the people who vote yes on Prop 8 are. I think Kirsten described the situation best.
If I have learned anything from history, it’s that both women and blacks were at one time not allowed to vote. Presently, this seems ridiculous. I think in x amount of years, people are going to look back and wonder why gay marriage was ever an issue. It’s going to take time but the faster gay marriage becomes legal, the faster it will become “normal” in soceity.
and btw…how has nobody said anything about the yoda impression?!
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I don’t understand why people consider gay marriage so “dangerous.”
Simply ignoring gay people is more dangerous, because it is perpetuating intolerance through exclusion. The only way our society can make progress is if we become more tolerant. Sex and violence are considered taboo, yet we have TV shows, movies, and videogames solely devoted to them. How are children expected to become responsible adults if the truth is hidden from them?
This is a key point in several of the stories we have recently read. “Omission” is so hazardous because it portrays a false view of reality rather than displaying what is actually truthful.
And as for religious beliefs, there is a fine line between spirituality and equality. In a democratic society we are each given the responsibility to make decisions based on equality and justice. If you make your decisions solely on religious beliefs then you are abusing the rights you have been given and are being unfair to those who do not share your religious beliefs. As for all of you who believe there are different parts to Prop. 8, you are completely wrong-it is solely about gay marriage and has nothing to do with taking away church’s rights.
Looking at Prop.8 from a logical and just viewpoint, there is no reason to justify its passing.
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thanx for the support carfi
yeah i think everyone is entitled to their opinion and no i dont think anyone is a bigot for supporting prop 8
i mean if we are gonna talk about gay marriage affecting traditional and fundamental views of marriage thats just ridiculous
think about it. even not all traditional marriages are the same. they vary with religion. jewish, christian, buddhist, they all have varying traditional marriage ceremonies. so to say that gay marriage affects traditional marriage is a harsh and rash overstatement to make. for all we know gay marriages could be performed completely different than traditional maRRiages. and i still dont see how what other people do effects us directly. Its not our decision to make, how other people live their lives. That’s their decision and their’s only
and not all bashers of prop 8 are gay and some are even believers of traditional marriage
i mean im baptist and my god teaches that marriage is to be shared only between a man and a woman. and i have faith in that. but just because that is how i choose to live my life doesnt mean others have to as well. im not going to force my beliefs on other people. its not my life. i cant live other peoples lives for them. i figure they can do whatever they want becas=use when it comes down to it its between them and god. theyll be the ones having todeal with that in their own religion. so thats all i have to say
OBAMA is officially our new PRES!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Kolkin I have to call you out. Just because you think something is logical and just does not necessarily mean other people do as well. (its all a matter of perspective)
Gay people are not ignored in society and they are portrayed on TV, and they have the right to push their agenda. I am not questioning that right, nor am I questioning the right of opponents of Prop. 8 to vote no.
Furthermore, religion is a lifestyle that defines people’s perspectives on equality and justice. It is completely fair to vote based on religion because to the religious, it is their First Amendment protected right to have freedom of religion and thus vote and act accordingly. As for Prop. 8 not having to do with anything besides gay marriage… well it has implications that affect society, fundamental beliefs (which are protected by the Bill of Rights), and churches, government agencies, etc…
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i just wanted to say because its been brought up 3 or 4 times…this really wont affect churches as much as some have made it seem. a gay couple isn’t stupid. they know that going to a catholic church or going to a Greek orthodox church or any other church known to be anti-gay-marriage, the church wont be happy and may not treat them with respect. so a couple wouldn’t go there. my church (los altos United Church of Christ) is against gay marriage as a whole conngregation (i disagree). and if we are approached by a gay couple asking us to marry them, we say “you may not be comfortable at our church at this time, can we recommend first congregational church in long beach about 20 minutes from here? they will be more able to handle your needs as a couple at this time.” ( i called my pastor terry and this is what she says exactly off a note card)and we’ve never had a problem. a couple never wants their wedding to be awkward or uncomfortable in any way. so if warned of any awkwardness or problems, they are more than happy to go to a different church to be married without anymore drama than could be expected(cake, flowers, dresses, tuxes etc.) just my opinion. i believe every couple has the right to be married, but every church has the right to voice their beliefs. this compromise can hopefully help both sides.
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Yes, Jay, but my religion (Judaism) doesn’t have a problem with gay marriage. In fact they married a lesbian couple at my temple.
What I’m saying is that if separation of church and state is not upheld, laws will be passed for the wrong reasons.
An afterthought: Debating makes no difference- no matter how much you explain, neither side is willing to budge.
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one more point…does it really affect those against prop 8?? its a lot like if someone you know is marrying someone you don’t think is a good person or will end up as a good marriage. you can tell the person it is a bad idea, but that is the person’s own decision. the government has no right to control who a person married whether its “wrong” or not.
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As for the church being allowed to express its beliefs, there have been many incidents where gays have sued churches for discrimination in denying marriage ceremonies.
I’m done arguing.
Kolkin, if you believe in gay marriages I believe in your right to believe in what you want.
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Jay, you’re awesome.
Alex C, I respect your opinion. And you do bring up pretty good connections.
Alex K, you’re true about the “no one’s gonna budge thing,” because no one is going to..
Kirsten, you’re very funny. =)
and Obama/Biden DID win, so it is my responsibility to respect that…. unlike SOME cough*bigots*cough who just BAGGED on bush the moment he was elected because they didn’t know how to respect the guy, whether they liked him or not.
PS. sigh* I can’t wait til this whole thing is over..
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One of the main arguments in preventing gay marriage, or at least banning it in the state of California deals with the fact that gay marriage goes against peoples religions. That’s the main reason I’ve heard from people for prop 8, so many people are bringing religion into this decision when I don’t think it should be. Seperation of Church and Sate. I mean, really, that’s what makes America different from other countries (or at least one reason) we have freedom of expression, marriage is a form of expression, an expression of love and commitment. Denying this rights is not the answer.
The marriage of two people of the same sex doesn’t affect our daily lives now. We’ve lived with if for the last few years and it hasn’t affected us. Why change that now. It’s discrimination.
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i vote we eliminate the word “bigot” from our vocabulary and respect a difference of opinion.
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yeah kim…this whole *bigot* thing is getting kind of out of hand…jay i respect you the most because there is alot of knowledge in your opinion even thouygh i dont agree withyou
i agree to disagree with you =)
and thanx henry, i am pretty comical
LOL
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I have to say, i am very impressed with how devoted each side is to their cause. However, it is very extremely, and awfully repulsive to see how segregated this topic is making our country. I can’t believe how much condemnation and critisism is occuring back and forth between both sides. Honestly, I don’t understand why people think that if someone, who is entitled to their own beliefs and thoughts, believes something contrary to their own ideals, they are automatically discriminating and are intolerants. Both sides of the prop 8 argument have received negative attentions…but that is why America is a free country-why we have agency-the ability to choose for ourselves, freedom of speech, of religion, beliefs, life. I think that is one of America’s greatest flaws, the crack in the cornerstone, people don’t respect another person’s beliefs and ideals.
I myself, support yes on 8, but that doesn’t mean i discriminate- i have many gay friends, just because i don’t necessarily support their actions doesn’t mean i am intolerant of them, or hate them for that matter. Yes, all men are created equal, we are all endowed unaileniable rights.
Through research of both sides and arguments, it is obvious that “no on 8″ stressed the fact that discrimination is wrong…why is it ok then to come out with commercials that discriminate against Mormons and LDS Missionaries, accusing them of actions we would never dream of doing?
I’m not sure about you, but double standards don’t stew well with me.
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I agree with everybody, especially Kim (Barnhill).
Name-calling and accusing others will most likely not solve any problems. (negative campaigning, which obviously did not bolster McCain’s support)
Anyways, the Prop 8 precincts are almost fully counted (as of now 86%) which means I might be able to go to sleep soon.
But anyways, the voting of Prop 8 has been a very close race ever since they started counting. There wasn’t a voting gap of more than 6%.
The current vote goes as:
52% for : 48% against.
a VERY close race.
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so i hear that prop 8 has officially been passed
how depressing
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yeah, i know that people are entitled to their own beliefs and all
and i do understand both sides
and i also think that people shouldn’t criticize other people or whatnot because they are yes or no on prop 8.
i would expand on everything else that i have to say, but it’s already done and i’m tired of arguing.
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blame canada
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in defense of tera-lynne
hahaha…
why the canadians??
even today, when i…..exposed those smelly things.
-.-
what does being a canadian have to do with not being able to smell it
LOL
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Ok i know this is gonna be a little late reponse (i guess i shouldve checked the blog yesterday, was a little distracted by the election) but im just gonna say a couple things and then im over it.
First of all, we have all neglected to mention a very important thing: we are going to have an african american president. I don’t care how you feel about Obama; whether you supported him or not, no one can deny what a great moment this is for our country. Less than 50 years ago african americans couldn’t even sit in the same seat on the bus or go to the same schools as white people in this country, and now a black man is our leader. Amazing and historic, and we should all be happy at least for that. Plus of course the type of political movement that Obama has led, bringing millions of young people into American politics and restoring hope in the possibility of government in the eyes of many.
As far as prop 8 goes, I think its silly at this point to continue arguing. henry your arguments are contradictory and hypocritical, but i think kokin and kirsten and many others already pointed out everything there is i can possibly say. All i will add is this: while yes, unfortunately prop 8 passed, it only won by about 3 points. About 10 years ago a similar measure was on the ballot and it won by about 20 points. So although we may not have gone as far as many of us wanted, we are heading in the right direction. The civl rights movement was not won in one election, it took about 15 years for black people to be fully integrated as equal citizens. So believe me, this fight is not over. I think it will ultimately be decided in the Supreme Court, the question is simply when.
On a lighter note, has anyone noticed that henry and I are the president and vice president of speech and debate, respectively? I dont think thats a coincidence, and for everyone frustrated by the constant debating, all i can say is sorry, we cant help ourselves. Its what we do.
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puahah yes i did notice.
lol
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hahahah, oh goodness, again with Canada. Tera-Lynn, in no way was my comment today supposed to offend you or Canada. Actually, I hear Canada is lovely and very interesting to visit. Mr. E just said that the white girls of Bread & Butter cannot handle the smell of dumplings, but Tera-Lynn can, so I was like “Oh! Because she’s from Canada.”
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Excuse me Zachglasser, but I believe you failed to mention that I am also a leader of Speech and Debate. And I can assure you that Publicity Manager is just as important as vice president or president.
Though my title lacks more of the ring that yours possesses.
But great point overall, we continue to make progress gradually.
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staying out of all arguments over prop 8, i would just like to say that this was probably one of the funniest days in mr. eldridge’s class we have seen this year; i don’t know, maybe i am going out on a limb here but i found it quite hilarious.
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i still dont get what that has to do with being able to smell the deliciousness of it.
AHHAHA (;
i think…my group would rather put emphasis on the taste.
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I couldn’t smell the korean dumplings, colleen, but I’m sure they smelled delicious. I’m probably just accustomed to the smell! or maybe because I go to canada a lot!
hm maybe I’m not even going to mention anything about the props. but its frustrating to listen to people talk about it during class.
hey that’s like a paralipsis isn’t it? haha!
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hehehe
Dear Olivia,
Of course i forgive you.
Love,
Tera-Lynne
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